The ESG Update Episode 17: Celebrating Women's History Month
Don’t let an uncomfortable conversation be the barrier between you and progress. In this week’s special episode of The ESG Update we celebrate Women’s History Month by welcoming Sonya Dreizler to the stage. Listen in as we discuss allyship, inequalities, and various ways to approach uncomfortable conversations.
Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Dan Carreno, Change Finance:
Welcome to The ESG Update presented by Change Finance. I'm Dan Carreno.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
And I’m Brittany Damico.
Dan Carreno, Change Finance:
Brittany and I manage the business development efforts at Change Finance. We are an ETF provider dedicated to environmental, social, and governance investing. And our mission is to help investors align their portfolios with their values without sacrificing returns. And our guest this week is Sonya Dreizler. Sonya is a speaker, an author, and a consultant who is focused on fostering more candid conversations about gender and race in the financial services industry. She also has a very deep resume when it comes to ESG and responsible investing. Sonya, thanks so much for being here. How are you?
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me on the show.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
I am so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us for this special Women's History Month edition of The ESG update. This is the first time in our podcast history that we've had the opportunity to introduce an article that was actually written by our guest. Sonya, Morningstar recently published your article titled “How to be an Active Ally to Women in Financial Services.” In the article, you introduce a grim statistic that women only represent 18.1% of advisors. You also outlined two main categories as to how someone can become an ally. The first is transferring the trust people have in you to other people. The second is transferring your inside knowledge. And I found the portion about transferring inside knowledge particularly interesting as you highlight the necessity for men to share compensation information with women who are entering a comparable position. I'd love to hear a little bit more about what inspired the article and your thoughts.
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
Well, what inspired the article starts way back with my “Do Better” series that I published in 2019. For those listeners who don't know it, it's a 10 article series about sexual harassment, assault, and discrimination in financial services. It's real stories from real women in financial services, things that they've experienced. One of the things I repeatedly heard from men, really well-intentioned men in our industry, was ‘what can I do?’ I answered that question so many times that finally I thought it's time to write it down so I can just send an article. There's actually a lot that individuals can do. First, let me step back and say that gender-based harassment, discrimination, and assault are systemic issues. It's much better if we can come at this from a regulatory standpoint, hitting at the different systems that underpin gender inequity. That said, individuals can also do the work individually while we work at systems change. To get back to the allyship, that's mostly individual actions unless you're in the position at a company to make systemic change. On this particular issue on sharing salaries, some companies disclose salaries and make it public information, or at least public within their company, so that all employees know what each position makes. It makes comparing compensation by gender transparent and easy. There's also a racial pay gap. When you put the two together, for women of color, the gender pay gap is astounding. It differs per race, but it's very, very wide. So, if your company doesn't have this and you are a man that wants to be an ally to women in your field, you can share your salary. This is how much I get paid. This is what my benefits are. This the thing that they don't tell you could be included like a gym membership or an expense account. There's a lot of different pieces of compensation besides just the dollars that you take home. So make sure to share all of that with your counterpart, either people that do a similar job or people who are coming up behind you in the same company or different companies. I've had men do this for me. I have made tens of thousands of dollars more per year because of that. Women are often just given the least amount of money that they'll take, and men can help even the field by sharing that information.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
Amazing. Thank you. I absolutely agree. I think that's such a great message to get out to everybody to help support and find balance for gender equity. So, can you tell us a bit more about Solutions with Sonya and how your career led you to found the company?
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
The background of my career is at an independent broker-dealer and RIA. I did really well there unexpectedly. I have an English degree and was not planning to work in financial services for very long. It was just a job, but I did well. And my boss had a lot of faith in me, and I moved from department to department, reorganizing everywhere I went. Eventually, it was a very natural fit for me to become our Chief Operating Officer. I did that for about five years when our CEO left unexpectedly. I threw my hat in the ring when the board was doing an executive search, and I got the job and became CEO. I got to sit at the same desk as the person who had hired me so many years before. It wasn't that straight of a path. I tried different things along the way. I tried being an advisor. I got my CFP designation. I tried lots of things. The straight line you see is the part that worked. I could do a whole other podcast about things that didn't work. In 2016 we sold the company, and I started consulting. I have deep knowledge of ESG, which at the time was a niche field. I started consulting, speaking on the topic, and helping financial services companies with their ESG communications, product development, and all kinds of different things. It's been really interesting, but as my platform grew, what I found what I really wanted to talk about was more of the social justice side of investing and inside of financial services. I've seen the gender and racial gap everywhere inside of financial services. I want our field to be representative of the country that we live in and the communities we serve. I want the really great careers in our industry to be available to the skilled and talented people who deserve them. So I've been focused on fostering conversations around that and figuring out some of the challenges that our industry faces and then thinking about what the solutions might be.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
I love that. You've had some great successes. I have seen your name all over social media and at conferences. You offer consulting services for both race and gender equity, as well as ESG and responsible investing. Can you elaborate on the consulting that you're currently doing? Is it primarily just facilitating those uncomfortable conversations, or are there additional services that you're providing?
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
Right now, it's mostly facilitating those conversations, writing, and speaking engagements, either at conferences or inside of companies. It’s sometimes talking with executive teams when they're finally ready to have those uncomfortable conversations. They want to have it with somebody they're comfortable with, somebody they can relate to, somebody who's been in an executive role in financial services. I'm a good first start. They can relate to me, we've had some similar experiences, and I can help them take the next step. I don't do full DEI consulting, but I can often help bridge that gap for a company that's not even sure what they need to do. I’m often the first step and first conversation. And in terms of ESG consulting, I'm currently not taking new clients. I have a handful of really fantastic clients with who I love working. We have great relationships. I help with marketing, messaging, product, all kinds of different things, but often it's in the messaging area and communications. I haven't updated my website yet, but that part of the business is currently closed. And as I've told you, I'm working on a big project that is taking some of my time, and I'll be excited to talk about that later when I have a little bit more information.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
I can’t wait to hear more about what's going on with that project. One thing I also wanted to mention from the article was that you reiterate the necessity to build networks that support inclusion. Can you offer a few other tips for our listeners for ways they can engage in this effort today?
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
Absolutely. If you have show notes, I'm happy to give you an article that I wrote on five. It’s one of the nicest ways to create the community that you want to see. The first step is to stop and listen, especially to underrepresented voices. I know your listeners can't see, but I'm a white woman. And one of the things that's really important to me personally, is to listen to the experiences of women of color, especially black women, who are typically underrepresented, and in many companies, voiceless in our industry. It's really important to hear those stories. Often the immediate reaction is to stop and dismiss those stories because they don't ring true to some. That couldn't happen here. That doesn't sound right. That's not my experience. But when we stop comparing our lived experience, we can let those stories in and then better understand some of the issues that people are facing. And then we can figure out how to solve them in our own community. Social media is a really great place to listen. You don't always have to be engaged in conversation. Lots of people offer good perspectives, and you don't have to always respond to them. You can just listen. And then there’s reading books and listening to podcasts. Make sure that who you're listening to is representative of who you want to serve and the community that you live in. Building a network is just a slow process of reaching out to people, listening, creating good relationships, and amplifying underrepresented voices. It takes practice, and it's totally worth it. It's an investment that pays huge returns.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
Just stop and listen. I think there's such importance to that. Just take a moment and listen to somebody else's story. When I was growing up, my dad used to always tell us that you cannot listen when you're speaking.
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
And you can't fully listen when you're figuring out how you're going to respond either. There's a really great project from Toussaint Bailey, the CEO of Enso Wealth. He did a project called “Just Listen,” and it's fantastic. I really recommend it. There's a YouTube channel, and there’s a website for it too. It’s so good.
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
Thank you. I will check it out. I had not heard of that.
Dan Carreno, Change Finance:
Thanks so much for your comments. I really appreciate it. We'll make sure to include the links to the articles that you mentioned in the transcript of the podcast on the website. Let's start wrapping it up there. And before we do, it’s time to sit around the campfire. (Wolf howl and fire crackling) Brittany, people are now getting vaccinated by the millions, so it may not be long before we're actually able to sit around a real campfire again with friends and colleagues. When you do, what is it that you want to share with them?
Brittany Damico, Change Finance:
Dreams! I can't wait for that! So, I was moderating a conversation recently on Clubhouse, which is a new social media platform. And I was speaking with Beth Caniglia, who is the Editor in Chief at the Solutions Journal, John Fullerton, who is pretty much the founder of regenerative economics, and Hunter Lovins, who is a champion of the earth. It was so inspiring to sit and have a conversation with those three and hear about the powerful impacts that they have made and that they intend to make. I walked away with a refreshed and a renewed sense of inspiration, hope, and excitement. I was so excited to be around those people.
Dan Carreno, Change Finance:
That is great. Thank you so much for sharing. Sonya, how about you? The next time you're able to sit around a campfire with friends and colleagues, what do you want to chat about?
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
I will plug a book that I just read. And it's so good that I'm reading it a second time. It's called Mediocre by Ijeoma Oluo. Now I'm reading it again so I can highlight the parts I liked. Also, I can't talk too much about it yet, but I'm working with a co-founder on a new business to amplify underrepresented voices inside of financial services. When we have information to share, and we're not quite there yet, but you can text the word REPRESENT to 33777. It'll ask for your email address to add to a list. When we have information that we're ready to share, we will share it. I'm really, really excited about this project.
Dan Carreno, Change Finance:
Could you also share your website and how people can follow you on social media as another way to keep up to date on what you're doing?
Sonya Dreizler, Solutions with Sonya:
The easiest way to find me is by spelling my name because that's my handle on Twitter and LinkedIn. And if you Google it, my website is the first thing to pop up. So my name is Sonya Dreizler. And my website is www.solutionswithsonya.com.
Dan Carreno, Change Finance:
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. So, the next time that I am around a campfire with friends and colleagues, I want to rant a little bit in the name of Women's History Month. Looking at the most recent stats for the S&P 500, only 7.8% of the companies in the S&P have women CEOs. So something is wrong here. Something is not working. And with that in mind, I wanted to share a Ted Talk that I watched recently from Tomas Chamarro, titled, “Why do so Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders?” Tomas says that we as humans and as a society, unfortunately, put way too much emphasis on characteristics like confidence, charisma, and even narcissism. And it turns out that men tend to have these qualities in spades, and that leads to men finding themselves in a lot more leadership positions. But the reality is that the most effective leaders have qualities like competence, humility, and integrity. These are qualities that tend to be more prominent in women. Mr. Chamarro asserts that, as a society, if we start putting more emphasis on competence and integrity instead of narcissism and confidence, we would find ourselves with better leaders, more female leaders, and most likely a better world. Again, I want to thank you, Sonya, for taking the time and for sharing your insights with us.
To reiterate, any of the articles and resources that were discussed during the podcast can be found in the transcript for the podcast on www.change-finance.com under the INSIGHTS tab is where you'll find the podcast library. If you have questions or feedback for us, you can always get in touch through the website. Brittany, Sonya, thank you so much for being here. Thank you to those that are listening, and we will be back soon with another episode of The ESG Update.